Murder on the Orient Express

[Scott]

I read that Agatha Christie regretted making Hercule Poirot such a weirdo. When I started watching the 1974 version of Murder on the Orient Express, I thought it was a comedy. The fact that the plot revolved around the murder of a child should have given it away and I did catch on that they were serious. It was directed by Sydney Lumet, starring Albert Finney, Lauren Becall, Ingrid Bergman, John Gielgud, Sean Connery, Anthony Perkins, Vanessa Redgrave, Richard Widmark among others.

So you think this new Kenneth Branagh version with Johnny Depp and Michelle Pfeiffer will be any good?

[skyhappysal]

Jun 1, 2017 16:46:13 GMT Scott said:

I read that Agatha Christie regretted making Hercule Poirot such a weirdo. When I started watching the 1974 version of Murder on the Orient Express, I thought it was a comedy. The fact that the plot revolved around the murder of a child should have given it away and I did catch on that they were serious. It was directed by Sydney Lumet, starring Albert Finney, Lauren Becall, Ingrid Bergman, John Gielgud, Sean Connery, Anthony Perkins, Vanessa Redgrave, Richard Widmark among others.

So you think this new Kenneth Branagh version with Johnny Depp and Michelle Pfeiffer will be any good?

The first Poirot mystery I read was Final Curtain.  Not a good one to start with.  So I always feel a little sad when I see a Poirot mystery. 

I thought Orient Express was a little on the odd-ball side, too, Scott.  But I liked it. I didn't know there was another in the works. I doubt I'd go to see it at the show, but I'd borrow it from the library, I guess.  Depp has been too 'hit and miss' lately. 

[Rokia]

I agree about Depp Sal -- seriously hit and miss

[Scott]

The most recent thing I've seen Johnny Depp in was The Ninth Gate made in 1999. He played a rare books dealer who was constantly smoking around the merchandise.

But you'll be happy to know that Depp plays Richard Widmark's role in this new movie

SPOILER: Click to show

{Spoiler}
which means he doesn't survive the first reel.

Kenneth Branagh plays Hercule Poirot, but Johnny Depp and Michelle Pfeiffer get top billing.

Almost the whole thing takes place in a train but it's filmed in 65mm and will be projected in 70mm.

[skyhappysal]

Jun 2, 2017 3:23:49 GMT Scott said:

The most recent thing I've seen Johnny Depp in was The Ninth Gate made in 1999. He played a rare books dealer who was constantly smoking around the merchandise.

But you'll be happy to know that Depp plays Richard Widmark's role in this new movie

SPOILER: Click to show

{Spoiler}
which means he doesn't survive the first reel.

Kenneth Branagh plays Hercule Poirot, but Johnny Depp and Michelle Pfeiffer get top billing.

Almost the whole thing takes place in a train but it's filmed in 65mm and will be projected in 70mm.

I just saw that Judy Dench is in it. So, maybe, I'll give it a try.

Ninth Gate. Now there's an odd ball movie! But, again, I liked it.

[Scott]

The Ninth Gate had a karate fight, didn't it, and Europeans driving around in a Dodge. But it reminded me of that episode of the Andy Griffith Show where Aunt Bea dated a dry cleaner who was constantly smoking around his customers' clothes. Didn't they go into a special sealed, climate controlled room where extremely old books were stored and Depp lights up a cigarette?

But, well, after Roger Moore died, I read that the critic A.O. Scott thought that Moore was the best James Bond and was tired of people saying that Sean Connery was better. “The Connery consensus seemed like part of a larger baby boomer conspiracy to bully people my age into believing that everything we were too young to have experienced firsthand was cooler than what was right in front of our eyes.”

So I should probably not try to bully the young people into thinking that Richard Widmark was cooler than Johnny Depp.

[cheryl]

Love Kenneth B. He stole my heart in Hamlet and can make anything fabulous.

[skyhappysal]

Jun 3, 2017 17:21:39 GMT Scott said:

The Ninth Gate had a karate fight, didn't it, and Europeans driving around in a Dodge. But it reminded me of that episode of the Andy Griffith Show where Aunt Bea dated a dry cleaner who was constantly smoking around his customers' clothes. Didn't they go into a special sealed, climate controlled room where extremely old books were stored and Depp lights up a cigarette?

But, well, after Roger Moore died, I read that the critic A.O. Scott thought that Moore was the best James Bond and was tired of people saying that Sean Connery was better. “The Connery consensus seemed like part of a larger baby boomer conspiracy to bully people my age into believing that everything we were too young to have experienced firsthand was cooler than what was right in front of our eyes.”

So I should probably not try to bully the young people into thinking that Richard Widmark was cooler than Johnny Depp.

Scott, only you could draw comparisons between Johnny Depp and Aunt Bea! I think you're right, though. About the books and the cigarette, that is.  Truly bizarre movie. All it needed was zither music.

[Scott]

Aunt Bea was only 57 when The Andy Griffith Show premiered---at least, the actress was. She was three years older than Johnny Depp is now and two years younger than Michelle Pfeiffer. Depp today could play Aunt Bea's manfriend.

But I was reading that fans are troubled by Kenneth Branagh's mustache. According to the Belfast Telegraph, people are tweeting furiously.

One angry fan opined: ""Branagh's tache is not a Poirot tache - way too bushy. But hey,

SPOILER: Click to show

{Spoiler}
Johnny Depp

is the one they kill, right? That's something."

I was startled to read in the article that Tony Randall once played Hercule Poirot. Here's a clip. Turns out I saw this thing when I was a kid. I was also startled to discover that Tony Randall had been wearing toupee all that time.

youtu.be/_xSiW1r8fL8

[zenfrodo]

If you want a really good, definitive version of Poirot, watch the PBS Mystery/"Agatha Christie's Poirot" series (Netflix currently has the later seasons, and any number of the eps can be found on YouTube). David Suchet did his homework, did his research, and, bluntly, is THE Poirot. The series can be a bit hit-or-miss with its story adaptations, but Suchet is always spot-on and a joy to watch. Their version of Orient Express is simply awesome, and for me, its take on the ending is more psychologically correct than Christie's (yes, really -- Christie's ending has Poirot being too cavalier about his decision, which goes against everything she'd set up in other stories; it's my one gripe with the novel). 

I saw the Branagh trailer and was NOT sold. I like Branagh's work, mind -- his version of Much Ado About Nothing is one of my favorite films, and I love his take on Lockhart in the Potter movies. Heck, I even loved his work in Wild Wild West. But in the Orient trailer, he is too much Branagh and not enough Poirot. The entire trailer is too much focused on "gee, look at all these currently-hot actors we've got" -- not a good sign. That its "reveal" is just a long shot of Branagh looking angsty as Poirot struck me as "wow, look at me playing the famous detective", as if the viewer is supposed to be awed by that alone.  In Suchet's version, Suchet IS Poirot; you watch the film, and you are seeing Poirot. In the Branagh trailer, I'm not watching Poirot; I'm watching Branagh play Poirot.

and that's really not good, at all.

[leyapearl]

Jul 2, 2017 18:34:52 GMT zenfrodo said:

If you want a really good, definitive version of Poirot, watch the PBS Mystery/"Agatha Christie's Poirot" series (Netflix currently has the later seasons, and any number of the eps can be found on YouTube). David Suchet did his homework, did his research, and, bluntly, is THE Poirot. The series can be a bit hit-or-miss with its story adaptations, but Suchet is always spot-on and a joy to watch. Their version of Orient Express is simply awesome, and for me, its take on the ending is more psychologically correct than Christie's (yes, really -- Christie's ending has Poirot being too cavalier about his decision, which goes against everything she'd set up in other stories; it's my one gripe with the novel). 

I saw the Branagh trailer and was NOT sold. I like Branagh's work, mind -- his version of Much Ado About Nothing is one of my favorite films, and I love his take on Lockhart in the Potter movies. Heck, I even loved his work in Wild Wild West. But in the Orient trailer, he is too much Branagh and not enough Poirot. The entire trailer is too much focused on "gee, look at all these currently-hot actors we've got" -- not a good sign. That its "reveal" is just a long shot of Branagh looking angsty as Poirot struck me as "wow, look at me playing the famous detective", as if the viewer is supposed to be awed by that alone.  In Suchet's version, Suchet IS Poirot; you watch the film, and you are seeing Poirot. In the Branagh trailer, I'm not watching Poirot; I'm watching Branagh play Poirot.

and that's really not good, at all.

*****

Agreed on all fronts.  My son watched the trailer and said, "What the hell is that on his face?  Suchet's mustache is much more realistic."  That said, and Depp aside, we will probably go see it.  Or at least watch it once it comes out on DVD.

[zenfrodo]

My husband had about the same reaction as your son, combined with "he looks NOTHING like Poirot." Branagh looks like some rough-and-ready action cop, not the OCD dandefied walking-ego who was such a stickler for dressing up that he not only wore a full three-piece suit and tie on archeological digs in Egypt (Murder in Mesopotamia), but persisted in walking around in patent leather shoes in the country, despite being in pain from doing so, even though Ariadne Oliver scolded him and tried to get him to wear more sensible shoes (Halloween Party). Didn't Branagh even read the books?

Just on the strength of Branagh's rep, we'll rent it off iTunes when it comes out, but I'm not gettng my hopes up.

Scott, Dame Christie didn't regret making Poirot a weirdo; she just flat-out didn't like the character. She preferred Miss Marple! Christie only kept writing Poirot because he was popular with readers, and (paraphrasing her words), the character wouldn't leave her alone & wouldn't shut up. 

(Edit: aha! Found the quote: "There are moments when I have felt: Why-Why-Why did I ever invent this detestable, bombastic, tiresome little creature? ...Eternally straightening things, eternally boasting, eternally twirling his moustaches and tilting his egg-shaped head... I point out that by a few strokes of the pen... I could destroy him utterly. He replies, grandiloquently: "Impossible to get rid of Poirot like that! He is much too clever." -- Agatha Christie)

[JD]

I'm with Dame Christie on this one!  I read a lot of her books, and loved Miss Marple and loved Tommy and Tuppence, and only mildly tolerated-verging-on-dislike Hercule Poirot!  

[Scott]

It'd be easier to defend Branagh's mustache if it had been real, like maybe he couldn't help it. Like his facial hair was naturally unmanageable. But, no, it was glued on.

All the other guys in the movie had mustaches, too, and I find the others' just as troubling. Even Derek Jacobi's. And especially Johnny Depp's.  

[Robina]

I agree with Zen, I'll probably watch Branagh's version when/if it's on TV but if I'm going to watch Poirot, then I'd rather watch David Suchet.  

I'm much more interested in seeing Judi Dench play Queen Victoria again.  

[zenfrodo]

Right now, I'm trying to find a copy of the Albert Finney "Murder on the Orient Express" from the '70s. I saw a clip on YouTube and was impressed -- Finney, by the way, got Dame Christie's personal thumbs-up for his portrayal (her only complaint was that his mustache wasn't magnificent enough!). Finney *looks* like Poirot; he really does. Compare him with Suchet; they both did their homework (and any number of covers of Christie's books from that time period use Finney's appearance for Poirot). Finney's accent is a bit off to my ears, but that's likely because I'm so used to hearing Suchet.

I'm betting the Branagh version'll be on Netflix a couple months after its release.

The only other Poirot version I've seen was Peter Ustinov's version in "Death on the Nile", and that was AWFUL. Ustinov played it for broad comedy, and while "Nile" definitely has its funny moments (especially with the author-character, Salome Otterbourne), Ustinov seemed to think Poirot was a bumbling comedic focus. Ustinov's great in other roles, but there? UGH. Which is another reason I don't have much hope in the Branagh "Orient Express" -- when you're dealing with a big-name actor, the actor tends to overtake the role.

[Scott]

Maybe the new one will renew interest in the Albert Finney version and get it shown on TV. Although I don't remember that happening with other remakes. It is available on DVD from Netflix.

I never read any of the books. I don't know if this would make it more accurate or less, but Finney was probably the only actor in the role who could beat up his co-stars.

[JD]

Jul 18, 2017 6:59:20 GMT Scott said:

I never read any of the books. I don't know if this would make it more accurate or less, but Finney was probably the only actor in the role who could beat up his co-stars.

And this is a good thing...why?

[Scott]

It may be more true to the character. Early in the movie, Richard Widmark tries to hire Hercule as a bodyguard which makes me think he was supposed to be able to fight off an attacker. You wouldn't hire Peter Ustinov or Tony Randall to do that.

But there was the time Sean Connery was in a movie with Lana Turner. Her man friend, Johnny Stompanato, flew to England, went to the studio and pulled a gun on Sean Connery who took it away from him, punched him a couple of times and called the police. It would have been more impressive if Stompanato hadn't gone on to be stabbed to death by a 14-year-old girl.

[JD]

On the contrary, these are quotes from some of Dame Christie's books describing Poirot, and from other sources:

He was hardly more than five feet four inches but carried himself with great dignity. His head was exactly the shape of an egg, and he always perched it a little on one side. His moustache was very stiff and military. Even if everything on his face was covered, the tips of moustache and the pink-tipped nose would be visible.



The neatness of his attire was almost incredible; I believe a speck of dust would have caused him more pain than a bullet wound. Yet this quaint dandified little man who, I was sorry to see, now limped badly, had been in his time one of the most celebrated members of the Belgian police.[4]

Agatha Christie's initial description of Poirot in The Murder on the Orient Express:



By the step leading up into the sleeping-car stood a young French lieutenant, resplendent in uniform, conversing with a small man [Hercule Poirot] muffled up to the ears of whom nothing was visible but a pink-tipped nose and the two points of an upward-curled moustache.[9]

Frequent mention is made of his patent leather shoes, damage to which is frequently a source of misery for him, but comical for the reader.[12] Poirot's appearance, regarded as fastidious during his early career, later falls hopelessly out of fashion.[13] He employs pince-nez reading glasses.



Among Poirot's most significant personal attributes is the sensitivity of his stomach:



The plane dropped slightly. "Mon estomac," thought Hercule Poirot, and closed his eyes determinedly.[14]



He suffers from sea sickness,[15] and in Death in the Clouds he states that his air sickness prevents him from being more alert at the time of the murder. Later in his life, we are told:



Always a man who had taken his stomach seriously, he was reaping his reward in old age. Eating was not only a physical pleasure, it was also an intellectual research.[14]



Poirot is extremely punctual and carries a turnip pocket watch almost to the end of his career.[16] He is also particular about his personal finances, preferring to keep a bank balance of 444 pounds, 4 shillings, and 4 pence.[17]



As mentioned in Curtain and The Clocks, he is fond of classical music, particularly Mozart and Bach.

[Scott]

I don't know what the heck Richard Widmark was thinking then.

[zenfrodo]

Well, the scene's in the book, too (and in the Suchet adaptation): Ratchet (the bad guy/victim) hears that Poirot is on board & tries to hire him for protection. Now Poirot was a member of the Belgian police, at a time when policemen were little more than thugs, so he'd have to know *something* about defense. Also, detectives at that point were hired as bodyguards and security -- the Pinkerton Agency in America was well-known for that. Ratchet, being American, may have known Poirot was a detective but assumed that Poirot was a detective like the Pinkertons.

Christie really didn't know too much about the US, unfortunately, so her US/American characters tended to be painted in broad, stereotyped strokes.

[Scott]

The 1970's Sidney Lumet/Albert Finney version is now available for free with Amazon Prime.

[Rokia]

Oh, I need to watch that while I still have Prime! Zing for the watching of the 1970s MotOE